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Comment on my fellow man... - Corrosive Shame
Therapy for Life
kneeshooter
kneeshooter
Comment on my fellow man...
Now, it's not normal I go off on a deeteeuk about the world around me, but I'm bored - and that's all the excuse I need.

On the radio in the car this afternoon there was a phone-in about Maxine Carr. One particular chap described her as a master-criminal, and was very strongly advocating the reintroduction of the death-sentence (or more accurately corporal punishment). To me this was the perfect example of where democracy goes wrong. Issues like this just reinforce my belief in intellectual snobbery. There was a complete lack of understanding, compassion and indeed humanity in the callers baying for her blood. Or maybe that's actually what humanity is about?

The other bit of news is the "anonymous" (unless you're a Daily Mail reader) young girl, who was given an abortion pill by her school health visitor, much to the annoyance of her mother. Channel 4 news just paraded the usual suspects (step to the plate the Family Planning Service and the Mothers Union), and a rather polite conversation about how it was a shame that the young girl changed her mind after she'd told her mother - so a victory for pro-lifers then...

Of course, the protests now will centre on changing the law so that parents have to be consulted. Great! That'll stop kids going to medical professionals, increase the number of unwanted pregnancies and encourage the spread of STDs! Hurrah for family values.

Oooh, I feel much better now. Top off a good rant with a Butterscotch Angel Delight (or Sainsbury's own brand equivalent) and life will be good.
33 lies or Lie to me
Comments
agentinfinity From: agentinfinity Date: May 13th, 2004 12:20 pm (UTC) (Link)
What's an abortion pill?
kingandy From: kingandy Date: May 13th, 2004 01:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't know exactly, but on Radio 1 they added that it was the first part of the abortion process. I don't imagine that it's an instant magical pill but they certainly gave the impression that, once taken, it was irreversible.
cookwitch From: cookwitch Date: May 13th, 2004 01:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's actually called the 'morning after' pill. Basically, if you've had unprotected sex, for 24 hours afterwards you can take this pill which will stop the pregnancy if, indeed, you have actually fallen pregnant. You may NOT be pregnant of course, but it just stops the fertilisation process in its tracks. It can make you feel VERY ill as well. Ick. Tis available over the counter from the chemist.
kingandy From: kingandy Date: May 13th, 2004 01:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
Different pill - this girl knew she was pregnant.

"...the first of two pills as part of a chemical abortion." Apparently it starves the baby of oxygen, presumably using witchcraft.
agentinfinity From: agentinfinity Date: May 13th, 2004 02:48 pm (UTC) (Link)
Okay, I was worried that they'd taken to calling the morning after pill an abortion pill, which would just be needlessly alarmist.
westernind From: westernind Date: May 13th, 2004 02:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
Probably RU486 - was developed in France a few years ago. Didn't know it was available in the UK now. IIRC can only be used in very early stages of pregnancy.
sixtine From: sixtine Date: May 13th, 2004 03:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
Chemical abortion pills have certainly been available in the UK for the last 11 years or so.
kingandy From: kingandy Date: May 13th, 2004 03:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
Witchcraft!
caddyman From: caddyman Date: May 13th, 2004 12:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
One particular chap described her as a master-criminal, and was very strongly advocating the reintroduction of the death-sentence

That is why in a decent society, the minority must be protected from the tyranny of the majority. It's also a fair warning about the dangers of populist politics.

Step away from the argument, Bryan. The old blood presure won't stand it...
kingandy From: kingandy Date: May 13th, 2004 01:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
For I was quite pleased with Radio 1 Newsbeet's coverage. With Ms Carr they presented the facts and focussed on how bad it was that information regarding somebody in the witness protection program (or whatever it is) could have been left lying around - carrying the implication that people who hold grudges about such things are to be discouraged. Then in the Abortion Thing they covered both sides, the right of the girl to make up her own mind as well as the mother's vested interest and obvious distress. They focussed on the part where advice on such things has to be confidential in order to keep people coming forward. All in all, a jolly good show for Newsbeet. Huzzah!
kingandy From: kingandy Date: May 13th, 2004 01:12 pm (UTC) (Link)
FIRST SENTENCE SHOULD READ: "For once I was quite pleased with..."
ikkleblacktruck From: ikkleblacktruck Date: May 13th, 2004 01:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm not sure someone involved in trying to cover up the murder of two little girls is deserving of any compassion, really. I suppose it all hinges on whether you believe her or not - just coz a jury doesn't convict you doesn't mean you're innocent (et vice versa). I doubt she'd qualify for the death sentence in any case, but surely nobody's going to expect her to be welcomed back into any community with open arms?

I must admit to not having read deeply into the abortion case, but I would be more concerned about my daughter having sex at 14 in the first place, which I believe the mother didn't seem to be. I think I'm also on the side that believes the girl's choice is paramount, not to mention the effects on her life and everyone around her. Interesting that she apparently only changed her mind after her mother had had a good brow-beating session with her, perhaps.
venta From: venta Date: May 14th, 2004 02:36 am (UTC) (Link)
just coz a jury doesn't convict you doesn't mean you're innocent

Actually, under British law I think it does :)

Of course, because a jury doesn't convict you doesn't mean you didn't do it. However, once you start thinking like that you're rapidly into Daily Mail territory, and will never trust a jury verdict again because you know better.
ikkleblacktruck From: ikkleblacktruck Date: May 14th, 2004 03:22 am (UTC) (Link)
That's what I meant - innocent as in didn't actually do it. Innocent in the eyes of the law is not the same thing - and does anyone really trust jury verdicts anyway? They're instructed to let people off on technicalities, justice isn't an issue.
sixtine From: sixtine Date: May 13th, 2004 03:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
I too ranted at various news items reporting the above.

Of course Maxine Carr deserves the death penalty. The fact that she wasn't anywhere near the murders is no excuse; she must have known, at least afterwards. It's a clear cut case and she deserves at least to be locked away for a very long time. Ignorance of an issue is no excuse. Naturally, I wouldn't want her in my community; we know she's guilty of benefit fraud. NIMBY thanks. Witness protection simply shouldn't be allowed. If you commit such a heinous crime you should pay for ever. That's the will of the people. The public have a right to know.

As far as the 14 year old abortion goes, the mother's quite right. At 14 you aren't mature enough to make the kind of decision that takes away a child's life. Only an adult can make that kind of decision and, in this case, the mother of the girl should have had the right to force her to carry the baby. She could then have had it adopted into a loving series of foster families and care homes. Alternatively, it could have been brought up by the 14 year old who should have been willing to sacrifice her future; that's the consequences of unprotected sex after all. If contraception was withrawn from the under-16s then they would all tell their parents what was going on and they'd get all the support they needed at home. It's a disgrace that contraceptives and 'abortion pills' can be handed out willy nilly by anyone.
feanelwa From: feanelwa Date: May 13th, 2004 03:20 pm (UTC) (Link)
You are being sarcastic, aren't you?
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: May 13th, 2004 03:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh yes. We trained together with the same sensei.
feanelwa From: feanelwa Date: May 13th, 2004 03:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
*breathes again* Good...
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: May 13th, 2004 03:29 pm (UTC) (Link)
You can't assume that with quite everyone on my friends list, but it stands a good chance of being the case.
feanelwa From: feanelwa Date: May 13th, 2004 03:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
I was indeed about to launch off into rant-mode, but then I read it and thought hang on, that sounds just a little bit too illogical...
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: May 13th, 2004 03:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
If you want the practice - go for it.
sixtine From: sixtine Date: May 14th, 2004 01:10 am (UTC) (Link)
yes :-)
kingandy From: kingandy Date: May 13th, 2004 04:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
The story was led on ITV news this evening with "Under-sixteens can't drink, smoke or vote - but a fourteen year old girl was able to have an abortion without her mother bla bla bla." The implication being, of course, that if you're fourteen you're not responsible enough to not have a baby. That made my head hurt for a bit...
sixtine From: sixtine Date: May 14th, 2004 01:12 am (UTC) (Link)
that's a very neat way of putting it.
nattydreadi From: nattydreadi Date: May 13th, 2004 03:09 pm (UTC) (Link)
Re the abortion thingy I find it very alarmist and am currently trying to syphon off the wheat from the chaff. I am very dubious that the girl changed her mind after she spoke to her mother - as noone has spoken to the girl, just the mother.

Also I entirely understand why the girl didn't tell her mother. IMO she seems like an awful screeching harridan who would have gone crazy apeshit. I base this on the fact that within 3 days of her finding out it is national news.

I feel really sorry for the girl, she made her own choice and now her mother is parading her round as an example of what is wrong with the country. IMO the law she wants changed really doesn't want to be changed, it will have negatives that fat outweigh the positives.

Backstreet abortions, unwanted pregnancies where the child is not allowed to have an abortion due to the parents beliefs, family schisms etc etc.

Maybe not a popular point of view but it is mine!
captainweasel From: captainweasel Date: May 13th, 2004 04:36 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't think there is enough alarmist shreaking going on about the fact that she let her 14 year old daughter have unprotected sex - screw (no pun intended) the abortion side of the story, she got pregnant at 14!
cookwitch From: cookwitch Date: May 14th, 2004 02:29 am (UTC) (Link)
How do you stop that happening though? You can do all the talks about condoms and birth control that you want and all the parental advice in the world won't stop a kid having a shag if it wants to. Unless, like my father did, you keep said child locked in the house and if she does go out, you go with her. I don't advocate that to be honest as it was extremely restrictive but it would stop any under age activities!

Chastity Belts, yaaaar!
captainweasel From: captainweasel Date: May 14th, 2004 10:36 am (UTC) (Link)
true you can't easily stop them shagging, but you can ensure they can do it safely without risk of pregancy or disease...

thats until I Take Over The World...
rebby From: rebby Date: May 14th, 2004 12:19 am (UTC) (Link)
Well at least they managed to get a court injunction stopping the newspapers publishing anything about a new name, etc, etc.

I mean if they did publish it and she was attacked it would not be the papers fault would it?
wulfboy From: wulfboy Date: May 14th, 2004 02:00 am (UTC) (Link)
It's one of the problems with having all this free communication around. You have to listen to morons, more often than not. Maxine Carr should be beaten with sticks? Why her, and not anyone else? Oh yes, I forgot, she was complicit in the deaths of two darling little blonde moppets.

If we're going to have the death penalty, we should have it for all crimes, not just some of them. How's that for a deterrent?

As to the abortion "story" it's not a story. If I was fourteen, female and pregnant I suspect that I'd quite like to know that I could at least talk to a health-person about it. If these alarmist idiots who want to "protect our children" spent a bit more time saying "yes, you can get pregnant at fourteen the first time" and less time saying "no condoms for fourteen year olds; they are not having sex because we say they aren't, la-la-la I'm not listening" I suspect the world might actually be a maginally better place.

Jesus but the rest of humanity irritates me.
venta From: venta Date: May 14th, 2004 02:33 am (UTC) (Link)
It's one of the problems with having all this free communication around.

My favourite League Against Tedium quote:

"Freedom of speech should be restricted... to those who have something to say."

I shall also be adopting the phrase "go off on a deeteeuk" forthwith :)
baldrick From: baldrick Date: May 14th, 2004 05:55 am (UTC) (Link)
I do not believe people have not picked up on the really serious and quite incorrect point in your post...

Sainsbury's own branch "Angel Delight" sucks and blows.

Always go with the real stuff...
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: May 14th, 2004 06:20 am (UTC) (Link)
I quite like it. But I've not had the real stuff for so long I might not be able to tell the difference. Perhaps I'll try next...
33 lies or Lie to me