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Linkin Park & Einsturzende Neubauten - Corrosive Shame
Therapy for Life
kneeshooter
kneeshooter
Linkin Park & Einsturzende Neubauten
[LP] - Good fun, might write something wittier tomorrow, suitably damning about small children at gigs, expensive hoodies and people who just don't know how to mosh.

However, on the way home it was pointed out to me that Einsturzende Neubauten are playing in London on Saturday 3rd April next year. I will definitely be going - anyone else interested? Don't all rush at once...
6 lies or Lie to me
Comments
ikkleblacktruck From: ikkleblacktruck Date: November 25th, 2003 05:09 am (UTC) (Link)
I reckon you could write something suitably damning about small children anywhere, and it will still sound just as tired.

kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: November 25th, 2003 05:20 am (UTC) (Link)
Do you think?

I was thinking of something a bit more creative this time about whether it's fair to take small children to gigs full of rock fans who might not want or even be able to think about the kiddies getting under their feet/in the way of the mosh; espeically where said kiddie won't be able to see anything being under half the height of the average fan thus leaving the alternative of being on an adult's shoulder (blocking the view for others) or missing half the point; or maybe I'd say something about exposing them without informed consent to potentially damaging levels of noise; or keeping them up late on a school night; or exposing them to smoke and alcohol in a chaotic and confusing environment.

You're right though - tired, damning and utterly baseless in fact.

ps No-one's forcing you to read anything I write. It might not be PC, or particularly big and clever in your opinion - but this is my part of the Internet.

pps So :-P
ikkleblacktruck From: ikkleblacktruck Date: November 25th, 2003 06:06 am (UTC) (Link)

Not a seated gig? I'm shocked. No, really - haven't people yet learned from crowd crush disasters?

It's tired coz everyone knows it already, is all. Is there some kind of clique where it's PC to bash children and/or their parents? Maybe the kids happen to like the band? Maybe they're safer with their parents at the gig than being left at home? Maybe faux compassion is just a more creative way of getting at people with kids?

ps You don't have to read any of my comments, you can always ban my IP. But it was a public post, after all, and I can comment if I want to, even if it's not something you want to hear. Plus I wouldn't bother if I wasn't interested in what you write, would I?

pps Double nur.
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: November 25th, 2003 02:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
No - not a seated gig. Most stadium-size events aren't. At the NIA you have seats at the sides and back, and then an open floor area. Clearly the latter is the best place for young children...

Maybe kids like the band - fine - I have no problem with that. Kids like many things - whether they should be able to have them is another issue.

Safer at the gig - perhaps they're safer with the parents. Oh - hang on - there's perhaps a subtle implication there that the parents should notice they have children (=responsibilities) to consider rather than just thie selfish natures.

Faux compassion - maybe you're right - but I still wouldn't have wanted to hurt a kid for the sake of it - and there were real risks. Adults take their chances. I got hit a couple of times, as did people around me who were enjoying themselves in an adult way. Who would have been to blame if one of the larger adults there fell on a kid? The adult for having fun in a consensual fashion or the child who happened to be in the way?

I'm not objecting to your comment in principle. Far from it. I was just wondering if you were objecting to my post...
ikkleblacktruck From: ikkleblacktruck Date: November 26th, 2003 04:59 am (UTC) (Link)
I'll be the first to reiterate that I'm not generally fond of other people's children, and I'm likely to agree that in principle it is "a dumb thing" to take small children to a rock concert. That said, I am presuming it was not an adults-only affair with age-limited tickets.

One of the first things you said in your otherwise reasonable list of arguments as to why children should not be present was about "rock fans who might not want them there" or words to that effect. Well, sorry, but the world isn't just the exclusive playground of childless 20-somethings. People who want isolation should go and live on their own remote island.

Who would have been to blame if an adult fell on a kid? The adult, of course. He would also be to blame no matter who he fell on. Being an adult does not excuse carelessness and saying it's consensual doesn't shield an adult from responsibility either.

Anyway, I should perhaps clarify that I wasn't getting at you personally or specifically. As I get older, I empathize more and more with those who have children and lately, anti-child comments are really getting my goat. Your comment just happened to be the last straw, or perhaps I just feel more comfortable actually expressing my opinion to you. We know how you and others feel about children, you've all "made your positions clear on the matter" many times. It's old hat. The world isn't going to change, so why keep harping on about it?

Plus in my defence I am very tired with four extra horses to look after and I was feeling argumentative, which is probably linked to a certain amount of frustration at not being able to do anything for my friend Sarah but wait for the incompetent health service to get its finger out, linked with concerns for the future for all the families concerned. Hence if I come across all snappy, I apologize.
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: November 26th, 2003 05:16 am (UTC) (Link)
That said, I am presuming it was not an adults-only affair with age-limited tickets.

Should have been IMO. But no, indicating society's growing lack of common sense. Interestingly a lot of the gigs I go to in London are 18+ - and they don't seem to be any different other than the venue.

Well, sorry, but the world isn't just the exclusive playground of childless 20-somethings.

I know what you're saying - but how many concessions should we make as society for some half-baked inclusive PC-ness? Are all concessions reasonable?

In truth all are in the eye of the beholder. Personally I'd like to ban smoking in public places - but many could criticise me for that.

Being an adult does not excuse carelessness and saying it's consensual doesn't shield an adult from responsibility either.

I'm not sure I agree - I think that most of the adults there went into it knowing pretty much what it was going to be like. The ones that were happy with the "risk" went to the front, the ones who weren't went to the back, or had seated tickets. Did the children give that consent? I suspect not. I suspect may either were not able to make an informed judgement or were simply following their parents who didn't "care" about it.

I'm not blaming the kids for anything - I'm angry with the adults who expose (in my opinion) their children to unsuitable situations.

The world isn't going to change, so why keep harping on about it?

Why vote? Why get out of bed? Why have an opinion?

Maybe you are getting old :-)

Plus in my defence...

Certainly no need to apologize. As you say, we know where we stand - and can very loudly agree to disagree, or to argue for the sake of it :-)
6 lies or Lie to me