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Corrosive Shame
Therapy for Life
Einsturzende Neubauten, Part the first
Wow! Wow! and Wow! again.

At one point in the second set I was trying to work out why I like them and couldn't really work out why, except for some half-formed thoughts about promoting musical ignorance or pretentious/unpretentious tensions.

Whatever the reason, they are an incredibly interesting band - they make noise like no other, and yet project artistic integrity even when some of the instruments is an angle-grinder on a shopping trolley; what looked like a giant slinky spring; and a bass played with a vibrator.

Anyhow, I got there, I got in, I got ejected, I got in, I left of my own accord. They didn't bother setting up a photo-pit so it was a great scrum with normal punters and leaves me 145 shots taken from the same position. Security then had the novel idea of wading into the crowd when they spotted anyone with a photo-pass or big camera and ejecting them through the back door; so then it was around the front and back in with my ticket. Actually I said "I have a ticket" (which I did) but at no point did anyone ask to see it...

Gig minuses were the couple who were making out right in front of me ("Get a room!"), all the people with crappy digicams who were flashing all the time ("Don't waste your time!") and the people who chatted all the way through 2x1 hour sets ("Get a life and save your money, better still - give it to me and talk outside").

Gig plusseds were Yu-Gung, ZNS and Ende Neu. Rockin'

On the train now - eta bed about 2:45 - Bah!
13 lies or Lie to me
gaius_octavian From: gaius_octavian Date: April 5th, 2005 11:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
Many photographers look down on cameraphones and digicams, but I don't mind them per se; I see them as gateway cameras onto the hard stuff, Canikon SLR. But anyway, it is extremely annoying that SLR users get picked on when at any time I could glance up and see a dozen people getting bad pictures all around me. I suspected that a big venue might have silly rules; I'm much happier shooting bands with people I know in, in clubs run by people I know.

Might have been interesting to try shooting from the balcony with my 200mm f/2 and a 1.7x teleconverter, tho'... if I could get 5 kilos of camera in :-)
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: April 6th, 2005 01:30 am (UTC) (Link)
What annoys me about compacts is people using them "all the time" with "automatic flash from too far away". There were a couple in front of me where at every point in the second set one or the other of them was taking video footage with their Polaroid digicam, and a chap behind me whose outstretched hand, with a camera, spent again most of the set, hovering about an inch to the right of my cheek.

I guess it's also the fact of "if you want to watch an entire gig through a viewfinder or LCD then do it properly or stay at home and buy the DVD" - it ruins the live gig experience to have tunnel vision. Which is why I didn't miss my camera for most of the gig, and perhaps partly why you didn't miss yours at all.

I've shot from the balcony there before with a 200mm lens (with the 1.6x of the camera to 320mm effective). Reasonably satisfactory.

Of course, I took some phone shots too - but I won't get those off until later, and again knowing the characteristics of the equipment I didn't bother except during the big "all lights on" moments.

Pretentious moi?
gaius_octavian From: gaius_octavian Date: April 6th, 2005 08:55 am (UTC) (Link)
Not pretentious at all. At a gig you can either enjoy the performance itself, or you can enjoy the process of creating powerful images of artists you admire (or, if you're working, pictures that'll sell) but to show up to a gig of a band you like, spend the whole time fussing with a little digicam, and have no real photos to show for it, seems a waste of time and money to me! With the exception of the 1% of Leica owners who do actually use them, getting quality photos requires being willing to lug around a big SLR+lenses and that's a fact.
steer From: steer Date: April 6th, 2005 02:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
People with cameraphones at gigs drive me mental. What the bloody hell drives them to stand there with their arm in front of my face for hours clicking away I don't know.

"Was the gig good?"

"Well, I've a sore arm and I didn't pay attention to the music, but you should see my collection of blurry photos of lights."

I'd shoot them.
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: April 6th, 2005 02:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
Don't read my latest post then ;-)
steer From: steer Date: April 6th, 2005 02:45 pm (UTC) (Link)
Not sure what you mean -- you refer to a "tirade against the camera phone" but I can't see such a tirade -- perhaps I am not in the right group to see it?
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: April 6th, 2005 02:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
Damn, my shameless overexaggeration is exposed.
karohemd From: karohemd Date: April 6th, 2005 02:08 pm (UTC) (Link)

Long time lurker, first time commenter

(coming in via davefish)

It was indeed a fine performance. It's amazing what fantastic music they produced from what strictly speaking was a heap of scrap metal and power tools...

Yeah, crappy flashing cameras annoy me, too, not only because of the flash but because I know that they won't get a good picture out of it (except of the heads in front of them). Today's compact digicams are meanwhile good enough to take reasonable pictures of a well lit stage without flash, obviously no comparison to a SLR with a large aperture lens.

Nice photos in the other post, I'm looking forward to the rest.

And then, at one point in the future when I actually know how to use my camera properly and have accumulated some nice bits for it, I might try to get into gig photography. Any tips (or shouts of "Don't even bother trying") appreciated. :o)

- Ozzy
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: April 6th, 2005 02:22 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Long time lurker, first time commenter

Interestingly, in total contradiction of my own point - I'm just going to put up a couple of pics I took with my phone that aren't ~too bad~.

And totally agree with you about compacts - I have one and it's lovely.

As for gig photography, my conclusion "a year on" is "Great fun, be persistent, but treat it like any other hobby and be prepared for the money it'll cost you". It's a great buzz to see pictures in print, and to get feedback (So special thanks for your comments!).

karohemd From: karohemd Date: April 6th, 2005 03:44 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Long time lurker, first time commenter

I'm just going to put up a couple of pics I took with my phone
It's rather scary how good camera phones have become in the last year or so. Miniaturisation has come a long way like your latest post shows.

I'm well aware that there will be costs involved but expensive hobbies are usually fun. ;o)

If you don't mind me asking, how did you get started? I would imagine most venues/promoters won't let people with big cameras in unless you can prove you're working for the press etc. and finding someone to work for is tricky if you don't have a portfolio of things you've done...
gaius_octavian From: gaius_octavian Date: April 6th, 2005 05:51 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Long time lurker, first time commenter

Big venues and signed bands, not straight away, but it's easy to take photos of unsigned bands, just ask them or the promoter, tell them they can use your images (with a credit!) if they like in promotional material. Some will say no, of course, and that's fine, there'll be others. Basically, you just need to get into the habit of asking, and not being too bothered if they say no.
karohemd From: karohemd Date: April 6th, 2005 08:39 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Long time lurker, first time commenter

That's how I thought things worked. I need to get into the habit of going to more local gigs.
I've already done Killing Miranda (personally knowing band members helped there ;o) at a very crappy venue with even crappier lighting in Norwich.
kneeshooter From: kneeshooter Date: April 7th, 2005 01:03 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Long time lurker, first time commenter

My process was to take some photos, offer photos in return for "use of name" to local websites. I also had a slight advantage in that my little brother is involved in running a rock Internet TV station so he was my first "sponsor" in that sense.

If I was starting now, I'd start with Grassroots - good advice, ideas, and they can normally help with passes too.
13 lies or Lie to me